Island Man

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Posts by Island Man

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  31

  It is possible two new governing body members this year

  by rege brazzy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  last three years that mark sanderson was apointed(announced)september 1,2012.

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  Island Man

  The annual meeting should be interesting this year . . . relatively speaking, of course.
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  30

  Debating evolution, intelligent design and cosmology with a JW

  by Thestumbler83 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  ive been having an email exchange with a jw family member and the discussion seem to have become a bit heated and im not quite sure why.

  i dont think ive said anything obviously offensive and ive been very careful with my wording.

  but i think im sometimes a bit tone deaf with these things.

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  Island Man

  "your last email seems to suggest that I am ‘unable to explain the (basis) for my beliefs in simple terms’."

  There may be a hidden fallacy here. Have you ever heard JWs say something along the lines of: "the truth is simple"? He might be discounting your explanations based on this fallacy that truth has to be simple and your explanations are not as simple as that provided by the bible and Watchtower.

  The problem is that how simple your explanation seems to him largely depends on how educated he is on scientific matters. Respectfully tell him that his ignorance on scientific matters is perhaps at the root of him finding your explanations to be not simple. Also, reality does not owe us simple explanations. The reality of the origins of physical existence may indeed be quite incomprehensible and counter-intuitive to the human mind but that doesn't make it any less real or truthful. Just because the bible offers an explanation that he can understand, does not necessarily make it correct. Truth does not have to be comprehensible to the human mind. It only has to be scientifically provable.

  When gauging the credibility of a truth claim, more important than simplicity, is the claim's scientific plausibility. Highly implausible claims, however simple, are still less likely to be true than complex claims that are scientifically plausible.
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  44

  WE NEED MORE MONEY! (Letter sent to Mexico re: JW Broadcasting of May 2015).

  by avaddohn94 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i don't know if they're making similar arrangements in other parts of the world but below you will find the letter (and the translation attempt) they're sending to all the congregations in mexico and central america asking them to modify their september 21 and september 28 service meeting programs.. after watching jackson's gold apple watch and lett's pinky ring one can only assume they are a bunch of brazen, shameless and greedy bastards!.

  the letter has already been uploaded at the spanish forum and you can find it if you click here or see the attached picture.. the translation "attempt" is as follows:.

  august 1, 2015. to all congregations.

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  Island Man

  Is this service meeting viewing only going to be done in Mexico, or will it be done worldwide. The letter is addressed "to all congregations" and I see no indications from the contents that it is limited to Mexico.
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  6

  When is a commandment ever worded with "IF"?

  by Israel Ricky Gonzales in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  acts 15:28 for the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality.

  if you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper.

  good health to you!.

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  Island Man

  The part that starts with "if", is not the command, but merely a statement that the christian will prosper if he obeys the command. The command is the part that starts with "keep abstaining from..."

  The use of "if" in the context that it was used does not imply that the command isn't mandatory. It only implies that a christian who fails to obey will not prosper.

  By way of an illustration, If a bank robber comes up to a teller and points a gun at her head and commands her to hand over money then says: "If you carefully obey my instructions it will go well for you", would you take that statement as meaning the teller doesn't have to obey the robber; that the robber isn't all that serious about her obeying his instructions?

  Notice also that the if statement isn't limited to the question of blood. It also applies to fornication. Do you think its fair to say that abstaining from fornication isn't a necessary thing for christians? The phrase "carefully keep yourselves from" suggests that obeying is important.

  Don't focus on the word "if" in isolation. Carefully consider the context of how it is being used.
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  34

  The origin of the name and masthead illustration of The Watchtower

  by Gorbatchov in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  thanks to the great "watchtower history" blog with historical information about the pre- and early bible students years, i became today aware of the origine of the name the watchtower and the masthead illustration in front of the old magazines.. in c.t.

  russell's younger days, his mother and other relatives died and were buried on the family plot at the allegheny cemetery.. it must have been a defining moment voor the young ctr.

  look at his inspiration to choose the name and masthead of his magazine.

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  Island Man

  If my memory is correct I remember seeing some information about there actually being an older Catholic or Anglican publication called the Watchtower.
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  11

  Watchtower can cite their sources after all

  by wannaexit in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as far as i can remember watchtower has been notorious for not citing their sources in their literature.

  the most they will do is to cite their in house, long living expert by the name of scholar.

  after 40 + years all i've ever read is the mantra "one scholar says" ad nauseum.

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  Island Man

  The secret of freedom lies in educating people, whereas the secret of tyranny is in keeping them ignorant.

  Nice quote.
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  96

  Ray Franz was an Idiot

  by vinman in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  ray franz who gave us insight into the gb due to a crisis of conscience was an absolute moron, with absolutely no critical thinking skills whatsoever like all of us have.

  i mean, to have a conscience based on some magic man in the sky.. how stupid can you be?

  in search of christian freedom?

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  Island Man

  Ray may have continued to be a deluded theist, but I think that his continued christian-theism delusion did a lot more good than would have been done if he became an atheist.

  You see, if Ray had become an atheist then much fewer JWs would have woken up as a result of his defection. Had he become an atheist then Watchtower's characterization of his as an apostate would have seemed even more justified and would have had far more credibility with JWs.

  But because he continued to be a christian he maintained a valuable common ground with JWs - the bible, belief in Jehovah, Jesus, christianity - which he can use to help them see Watchtower's error. A person who believes the bible and knows it well, has a greater chance of being able to help JWs see the error of their ways in light of the bible; than would an atheist trying to disprove Watchtower. The JW will completely shut his mind to the latter, but will give a measure of attention and credence to what the former has to say - to the extent that he can show its coming from the bible.

  So Ray was a very valuable asset in helping many escape Watchtower. Many who later became atheists, started their journey out of Watchtower by reading Ray's books. That journey may never have started if Ray was an atheist. No God-believing JW is going to give credence to an atheist's criticisms of Watchtower. So Ray serves as a valuable stepping stone or gateway from Watchtower to atheism - for those who do later become atheists. For most, the journey cannot be straight from Watchtower to atheism. It has to be from Watchtower to more moderate theism and then atheism.

  Don't be dissing Ray.
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  35

  why did the sacrafice have to be so BRUTAL

  by Tater-T in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  why did the sacrifice have to be so brutal... i mean what value does that add to the equation of justice.couldn't he jesus have came down and just been slaughtered like a regular sacrifice without the brutal torture.why is justice served by brutalityanyone anyone bueller... lolnow you know i don't like to type for hours but this is always bothered me

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  Island Man

  Ancient religions throughout the earth have been practicing human and animal sacrifice for centuries before the advent of Judaism and christianity and its not hard to see how the offering of sacrifices arose.

  Ancient people attributed agency to deadly events like droughts, storms, volcanic eruptions, etc. They assumed that a god or gods were behind them and brought them to take human lives. So if the gods bring horrible disasters to get human lives how do you stop the gods from bringing the disasters? Simple. You find a way to give the gods what they want - human lives - so that they would have no need to bring the disaster to get them. So you offer the gods sacrifices. True, lives are still being taken. But the difference with sacrifices is that the community gets to feel like they're at least in control of the situation. They can determine who dies and when they die instead of having to be in the powerless situation of a god unexpectedly bringing a disaster to kill god knows how many, who and in what manner.

  But then another problem arises - the amount of people killed in natural disasters are invariably more than the amount of people that will be sacrificed to avert them. Why would a god accept the death of one person served up on a platter when he can claim a hundred lives in a flood? This idea likely troubled the ancients. So how did they resolve it? They don't just offer up anyone. They offer up the best among them- the most beautiful, the most strong, the most virtuous - the virgin - the one or few who are the most perfect in the community. Surely the gods would prefer to have a few guaranteed high quality lives served up to them on a platter rather than working to take lives in a natural disaster where persons of all sorts die with no guarantee that they'll get a life of good quality. And thus the notion of having a suitable sacrifice of high quality - an unblemished lamb, an innocent, chaste virgin, etc.

  Sacrifices also work for the belief that the gods bring disasters to punish the people for their sins. Instead of the whole community being punished for their sins by the gods, why not have one individual bear the sins of the whole community and be punished on behalf of the whole community? But if this person is himself a notorious sinner then it would stand to reason that he deserves punishment for his own sins. So perhaps when the gods are finished with punishing him for his own sins there wouldn't be any of him left to be punished on behalf of the rest of the community and the gods will still punish the community for its sins. So to resolve this issue, the one who is to be sacrificed to the gods for the sins of the community, has to be one who is innocent enough that his own sins are not so numerous that he has no room left in himself to also carry the sins of the community.

  Killing the sacrificial victim in an especially slow, painful and brutal manner could also have been thought up as a way of justifying the death of one man or woman for a whole community. Let the gods see the lone victim experiencing the brutality equivalent to experiencing a thousand deaths and maybe the gods will agree that his death is more than sufficient to compensate for the hundreds of deaths that the gods would have otherwise taken by some natural calamity.

  The whole concept of the ransom sacrifice integral to christianity and the animal sacrifices of Judaism go way, way back in time much earlier and more primitive pagan cultures who devised the concept of sacrifices through superstitious beliefs.
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  52

  Helen Keller is not a hero

  by StopTheTears in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  few realize just how wicked some of the most revered people in history were.

  helen keeler (1880 to 1968) was a wolf in sheep's clothing, no hero.

  keller was a communist.

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  Island Man

  StopTheTears, I hope you don't consider yourself a christian because your hatred of communism would mean a hatred of certain principles of christianity. 1st century christians practiced communism. Go read the early chapters of the book of Acts.

  I believe the problem with most people who see communism as evil is that they don't really know what it is. Many people ignorantly equate communism with dictatorships that take away peoples rights to free speech and other human rights. This association likely arose due to the fact that many communist nations have been dictatorships.

  Communism is simply about having an economy where the resources are equitably shared among consumers as opposed to having consumers freely compete to gain as much as their buying power and desire permits. Just like capitalism it has its advantages and disadvantages.

  Personally, I prefer a mix of communism and capitalism to gain the advantages of both and to help counteract or minimize the disadvantages of both. Naked extreme capitalism isn't healthy and Naked extreme communism has yet to be shown to be a practicable working system.
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  18

  Something odd about how Watchtower portrays prayer versus how JWs actually pray.

  by Island Man in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  watchtower literature often depicts individuals praying with their hands clasped together or kneeling on the ground in their bedroom.. but i don't recall ever seeing a jw praying like that.

  i have never seen a jw praying in a kneeling position or with hands clasped together.

  have you?.

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  Island Man

  But that may not be a sufficient hint for 'worldly' people reading the literature. They will need a stronger hint than that to realize that the JWs are in prayer mode

  You're right, someone could easily mistake a photo of a JW dozing off during the assembly program or dozing off at the meeting at the kingdom hall, for a JW praying during the prayer in the baptismal talk or praying during the prayer over the wine or the bread at the memorial. lol